One to One with Rob Rufus and Nigel Ring

I found this interview between Nigel Ring and Rob Rufus taken just after the "Together on a Mission Conference" in Brighton in 2006. It's so stirring.

NR: Were you brought up in a Christian family?

RR: I had an incredibly happy childhood but my mother was an agnostic and my dad was an atheist but a very good father. From about three years of age I was conscious of God's Presence and about the age of seven or eight, I began to read the gospels. However in my high school years I really went out of my way to undermine Christian faith; but I was longing for them to win the argument. When I finished high school my dad had convinced me that Christianity was a modern form of sophisticate superstition but I had the privilege of leading my dad to Christ many, many years later, three weeks before he passed on!

On "call-up" in the military I began to ask questions about the meaning of life even more. Then at university I got very involved with the Hare Krishna movement. I even joined a Hindu Ashram full time.

NR: Had you met Glenda at this stage?

RR: We met at university and got married. We had our first son Jay (Hindu for victory) by the time we had joined the Hare Krishna movement. In the meantime Glenda had an amazing encounter with God and was "born again". I ridiculed that a martyr could save the world. It seemed foolish that Jesus died on a cross; He could have done better as a teacher. One day a man wanted to join our community. I asked him how long he wanted to stay and he said as long as was necessary! That night he suddenly sat straight up and pointed at a picture of Krishna, shook his head and just said; "Jesus Christ is the pure sacrifice of God and He is the only way" - a pretty courageous thing to say in a Hare Krishna temple!

I was suddenly aware that I was not right with God. When I got up at 2am he had gone and I never saw him again.

NR: Angelic?

RR: I don't know Nigel. For months I tried to increase my performance in Hindu rituals. Then in the Ashram on my own, Jesus came and said; "My yoke is easy and My burden is light. Come follow Me!". So I was "born again" in a Hindu temple! That was in 1977.

NR: Did you walk straight out?

RR: I did leave as I was called up again by the South African military. But I went back and witnessed to every single one there. I heard later that some I had spoken to had left the movement.

NR: I think your second child had been born by this stage?

RR: Yes, Ryan was conceived whilst we were in the Hare Krishna movement. He is now part of our leadership team. We also have a daughter Bonnie who leads worship in our church.

NR: When you left Hare Krishna, how did you engage with a church?

RR: We went back to the university on a post-graduate course. I met Christians who had fasted for forty days for us when they heard we were going to the Hare Krishna people. They burst into tears and were amazed! We joined them as a community of people.

NR: How did you plant a church?

RR: After I graduated God called me to plant in our home town but there was nothing supernatural there. I began to read Acts and God asked me; "Do you believe everything that is My will will automatically happen?". I said; "Yes Lord!". "Do you believe it is My will to save people every week and add them to you?". I said; "Yes Lord!". "Do you believe it is My will that people get healed miraculously?". I said; "Yes Lord!". "Then how come it isn't happening?".

He spoke to me about going to sit under the ministry of Kenneth Hagin for three days. Initially I was quite critical and analytical but I watched the miraculous happening. Then God said; "Lift your hands - you can do this!". The Presence of God came on me overwhelmingly and powerfully for the first time in my life. The next Sunday our church was hit by the power of God. People with deaf ears began to hear, different people began to cry out. I felt God say; "Pray a blessing over the people". So I asked them to stand and said; "Father would you bless ..." and I didn't get any further.

I heard this amazing rushing sound through the building and saw people being picked up and carried two to three rows through the air. We had never seen anything like this. I called out and said; "You have seen that God is real. Come and get saved!". People literally ran to get saved that day. Even the local rugby team visited and broken bones were healed. The church grew by hundreds. Then God said; "I am going to lift this heavy anointing off you for a season and I want you to get to know me. I am going to link you with people that I want you to be accountable to. I want you to develop your doctrine and knowledge of Scripture. I am going to bring this power back on you at a later stage".

It was at that stage I met Dudley Daniel.

NR: Has God brought that power back to you?

RR: Every year I asked God; "Is this the year?". Every year He would say; "Be faithful - this is not the year". By 2001, 2002 I wondered if God would ever do this again but at the beginning of 2006 I heard God say; "This is the year not just for you but for much of the wider body of Christ". He promised He would restore this power at a higher level and I feel certain that as the year progresses we will see this more and more.

NR: Is this world-wide?

RR: There is fresh expectation in many parts of the world and reports of some unusual signs and wonders. I think 2006 is the year our Lord is taking His finger off the "pause" button.

NR: Such ministry comes out of an intimacy with God. How did you deepen your personal walk with God?

RR: I love to get out to solitary places; the mountains and the forests. When I first planted a church I would spend a day or two every week alone with God, not trying to prepare messages but wanting to get to know Him. I learned to fine-tune my spirit to hear His voice and talk to Him about who He is. He said; "Rob I want you to ask Me questions about Me. If you open your heart to me, I will open My heart totally to you - and reveal things to you". I found that if you develop a depth of relationship with God in the solitary places I could start hearing His voice in the noisy places. I can even stand in Mongkok - one of the densest population areas in Hong Kong and hear the voice of God.

NR: Many leaders would ask; "How did you carve out that time? Did you have a team with you?".

RR: Yes I did have a good team but there is also unnecessary guilt that comes. One day sitting on a mountain looking out over factories where members of my congregation were working, God said;

"Son those people want you here - they want you to come with dew of heaven on your shoulders and speak the living word of God".

NR: Moving in these dimensions, do you experience opposition?

RR: Yes! The enemy is against the anointing because it destroys the yokes, lifts the burdens off people's shoulders and breaks his strategies and attacks. There are anti-Christspirits trying to get the church to be more secular, to run programmes, entertainment with human wisdom. Reaction is mainly from religious people; the world longs to experience something that is supernaturally authentic. We need to redeem the supernatural back to sound theology, basing it on good doctrine, expressed by people who have healthy marriages, healthy families and so forth.

NR: Where do you find your own peer relationship that will keep you secure and where you weigh each other's ministry?

RR: A very good question! When God exploded into our church I had no understanding of proper Biblical government foundations or biblical wineskins. I had difficulty in hosting a big crowd! As I mentioned, it was then in 1984 that I was introduced to Dudley Daniel. I first met him on his day off. He came out of his study in a pair of shorts and hugged me. I got the shock of my life! I felt God say; "I have joined you to this man forever!". I began to realise that Dudley had an apostolic wisdom, understanding and grace on his life. He helped us lay proper New Testament patterns and Victory Faith Church is still very healthy today.

NR: How did New Covenant Ministries begin?

RR: When Dudley was baptised in the Holy Spirit, his denomination kicked him out. He was invited by a small group in Bryanstone, Johannesburg to pastor them. He also felt God say he should build relationships with pastors who are lonely, wanting friendship and looking for togetherness. Out of that came the phrase; "Friendship before function". This began to reflect what Jesus revealed so wonderfully with His friends who were disciples.

There were many BBQs with humour and laughter. Slowly the idea of a trans-local team began to develop; that is when I got involved. God began to open up the oath He made to Abraham to bless all nations. We began to see that we would have to plant New Testament local churches in every nation.

NR: Did you have a particular strategy?

RR: In Scripture proven ministries took the initiative to break new territory. For example Paul and Barnabas having established Antioch moved on. Dudley relocated to Australia. This sent a big signal to us all. We thought South Africa was going to fall apart but God actually blessed us. Then God called Glenda and me to join him.

NR: Were you creating South African churches?

RR: Not at all! As we planted we started working with indigenous people and they started coming on team. We wanted to reflect the culture of the kingdom not a religious sub-culture.

NR: Have you found that God has given you favour with particular sections of the community?

RR: In certain countries, doors open through situations of poverty. In others, it has come through Christian businessmen and women like Priscilla and Aquila.

NR: How did your next transition come about?

RR: When Dudley felt called to work into the USA, he handed the visionary leadership of Coastlands International Christian Centre over to me. In 2002 after seven years God called us to go full-time trans-local equipping churches in evangelism, signs and wonders and miracles so we handed the church over to Dudley's son Tyrone. Then our hearts began to turn to Asia and Glenda and I planted a church in Hong Kong.

NR: Did you know people on the ground?

RR: There were five people in Hong Kong and five young people from South Africa to help us for 6-12 months.

NR: How have you grown?

RR: Originally I thought we would build primarily with ex-pats using the medium of English. However Chinese people started coming because they heard about the Presence of God and were attracted to the message of grace. One young, very intelligent and hi-tech Buddhist man came. The Presence of God was so powerful in the meeting that he began to weep and said; "They are not singing about Buddha, they are singing about Jesus so He must be alive!". He gave his life to Christ and we baptised him very soon after that. We are, probably about 95 adults at this time plus children.

NR: Do you have any comments on multi-racial, multi-cultural, multi-lingual church?

RR: When diverse ethnic groups come together that reflects the wonderful finished work of the Cross! The idea of the homogenous church for me is foreign to the Scripture. We are enjoying being a rainbow church.

NR: Has the signs and wonders ministry opened doors for you in Hong Kong?

RR: Yes! There is a lot of idol worship that opens people up to demonic influences so when God sets people free they go and tell their friends. The potential to have exponential growth in Hong Kong and into mainland China is enormous. The secular humanistic money culture has left a real emptiness in people's lives.

The Presence and power of God is a major means to impact that part of the world.

NR: Can you disciple others into this ministry or impart it to others?

RR: Both! The main way is through impartation. It is through association with people that are moving in the supernatural like Elijah to Elisha or Paul to Timothy or Moses to Joshua and so on. There also needs to be practical instruction; how to co-operate with God; how to co-labour with God; how to partner with God. I love to coach even in services on a Sunday morning - "This is why we are doing this".

NR: You referred earlier to what God was saying about 2006. Can you expand on that?

RR: I came to London in 2005 and I was praying in Richmond Park and suddenly I felt the clear voice of God saying He is going to come with a visitation of His glory to the British Isles. It may seem unlikely or like wishful thinking but I just felt it so strongly. He said He was going to call me back and have some involvement in facilitating, in a small way, some of those things. Something would rise up within these British Isles. It would be for everyone who is hungry for God. It would require people to look at wineskins to avoid another charismatic movement that will run for a while and then burst.

Those who have been faithfully establishing wineskins for years need to start looking with expectation that they have not laboured in vain. Others will need to be looking at Scripture and to people who have built according to a Biblical pattern. This is the time to prepare for this visitation by building proper Biblical government and pattern into the church.

A Biblical wineskin embraces three elements:

1. Biblical authority structures which is proper government based on what the Bible teaches not on democracy.

2. Biblical vision which involves going to the nations and involves reaching the lost.

3. Biblical values - how we do it, with integrity, humility, with team, accountability etc.

Prophetic ministries around the world are picking up an excited expectation of something significant. This time hopefully we won't have a Philistine cart with our Uzzah's and Ahios. We will receive this visitation with a lot more reverence and honour who this is for. This is for the honour and pleasure of our great God not to make certain movements more famous or our churches grow faster. This is to see the glory of God come into the nations that multitudes can be saved.

NR: Thank you so much Rob - An excellent place to conclude!

Empower Conference - Session 1

It was my initial plan to begin transcribing a series that Rob Rufus preached on the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 2007. However to be honest I have been really struggling with feeling quite low about the spiritual state of the United Kingdom - my homeland. I remember when Rob first came to "Together on a Mission" - the Newfrontiers Leaders Conference in Brighton in 2006 and then in 2007 there was a great deal of excitement and anticipation. God seemed to be on the move and there were dreams and visions and prophecies about tidal waves and coming waves of glory. The Florida Outpouring seemed to be another signal that something was abroad in the world. But then I am not quite sure what happened. "Together on a Mission" went off somewhere different and last years conference talked a lot about Mark Driscoll - but I didn't hear as much about the manifest Presence of God. What's going on? Where's God's tidal wave?

So I decided to transcribe and publish the last conference that Rob spoke at here in the United Kingdom! I was fortunate enough to be there - it was called "Empower" at Kings Church in Eastbourne. It feels really "right" to do so! There is so much encouragement and reminders that God has not forgotten His planet!

Here is Session 1 preached on the Friday night;

Graham Marsh (Kings Church lead elder): What would church be like if the fire of Pentecost came upon us and then I asked another question - what would community be like if the deluge of His Spirit came down? In recent weeks and in the last month we have been catching a glimpse of that if you have been tuning into satillite T.V around the world and seeing what would happen if suddenly the power of God was to break in upon us. Two years ago I started to ask that question and it was at that time that I went along to a conference and heard extrodinary communication of faith to prepare us for that day. 2 years ago ago nearly I sent out an email offering lots of things - holidays, fine wine and cheese - in the hope that Rob and Glenda would get on a plane and travel 13 hours and come and be with us. As we started this evening and I was welcoming people, a lady came in who had been to the conference we held last year from another church around this region and she said "Something happened on that day that has changed my life. I have been suffering with depression for years" - and fourteen months later she is now beginning to testify that her life has never been the same since the day she was released from that depression. What would church be like? What would community like if we were in a place where the power of God came on us like a deluge? That is our prayer for this weekend that we will be changed, our churches changed and as a result the community will be transformed. So I want to welcome you to "Empower" - the desire as we read through the Book of Acts was that people's breath was taken away and that is also our desire;

That we will catch such an awesome glimpse of the manifest Presence of God that our breath is taken away.

So it is my real privilidge and pleasure to introduce all the way from Hong Kong - Rob and Glenda Rufus!

Rob: Good evening everyone! It is such an absolute delight to be here. Eastbourne at last! We believe this is a divine setup. When Graham invited us 2 years ago - there was no Florida outpouring and no idea of those things. We feel that God has ambushed us this weekend in a wonderful way and we are so excited to be here. We have already had a lot of fun with Graham and Belinda and they have been so good to us. Everything they promised us when they tried to seduce us to come, they have gone exceedingly abundantly above we could have ever imagined. I preach from living free from guilt but I am almost guilty and embarressed since coming into Eastbourne - but I can handle a bit of that kind of guilt! God is so good. It is so strange having lived all of our lives in the southern hemisphere and everytime we come back to the UK it is the most strange sense of coming back to your roots and legacy and we feel so at home here - as though we were born here.

Three years ago I was in Richmond Park praying for a series of meetings we were going to do in a place called Reading just outside of London. God spoke to me literally audibly. Not with my physical ears but down here. That is for every believer to hear the inward audible voice of God. I don't think it is normal to go without hearing God's voice! Jesus said; "My sheep hear My voice" and that inner voice of God that is audible and clear and speaks in English (because God is English - you realise that?!). He speaks in English to the English and there is an inward witness and an inward testimony of the Spirit and sometimes your own spirit speaks and you can hear it. The Holy Spirit lives in your spirit so your spirit gives you good counsel. It goes upto your mind like a kite in the wind. But often God will speak in an audible voice. We are listening with the wrong ears because He speaks down here and not to your head. He said;

"Son I am going to visit the British Isles with waves and waves of glory" - this was three years ago - "And I am going to call you to come into the UK from time to time for a season - for only a period of time - and I will open platforms that are strategic and significant platforms where you will facilitate the release of the glory. Then after a season you will not need to come back anymore for your assignment will be over".

So I didn't tell Glenda that and a few nights later God said; "Terry Virgo will be the first one to invite you to the Brighton Conference". Glenda turned to me the same day and said; "You know what God has just told me? Terry is going to invite you to the Brighton Conference!". I said; "I know that - He has already told me!". Like a smart alec! A few months ago up in Hong Kong we have a rooftop where we often have BBQ's and God just came and visited me in the most extraordinary way. I love it when God visits you and you haven't been fasting and praying. I have got a bad confession to make. I have very few encounters with God when I fast and go on extended prayer times.

God just seems to come upon me unexpectedly and unsummoned when I feeling most unspiritual!

I had my BBQ all lined up. Suddenly God came and visited me - it sounds Biblical and I went into a kind of semi-trance and I heard God's voice. And He said;

"Son I want you to please tell My people to stop trying to impress Me". I said; "What!?". He said; "Including you! Stop trying to impress Me. Stop trying to impress one another. Ask My people to let Me impress them because I can really do that well! Nothing actually impresses Me except faith and I wasn't shocked or impressed when man landed on the moon. I created the galaxies! I want to impress My people! You are the Bride and I am the Bridegroom! There is something wrong about a Bride that is meant to be all feminine and beautiful trying to flex her muscles and impress the Bridegroom! I want to impress you with how powerful I am! My church doesn't have to impress Me! I have clothed you with the garments of salvation and you are beautiful to Me and I am already in love with you! Would you let Me impress the church?". So I said; "Yes go ahead Lord! Anytime!". We saw an increase of God's Presence from then on!

So anyway we got back to Hong Kong and within a week Terry's email arrived asking us to come to Brighton and he said; "Won't you pray about it?". We wrote back immediately within minutes and said; "We don't need to pray about it - have been waiting for your email! What took you so long?". He also graciously invited us back last year as well to be there. There has been such a sense of everytime we come back to the UK there has been such an increase here of anticipation! We have seen people get out of wheelchairs here - did you know that? God is doing miracles in the UK! I get so angry when I go to Third World nations and I hear people say; "God has finished with Europe and the UK". I say;

"The greatest move of God is coming out of the UK and out of Europe - He isn't finished with the UK and Europe! This is going to be mighty what is coming out of this area of the world!".

I am finding it easier to see miracles in Europe and in the UK than in some Third World countries! We have just been in the Northern Europe Conference - the Newfrontiers Leaders Conference. We had at least forty to forty five healings and extraordinary miracles that Jesus did! From the Latvians to the Dutch! An incredible colourful gathering of people! There was a Dutch lady there that we saw being wheeled around the conference everyday and she had M.S. She had been diagnosed a few years ago and slowly she started losing the use of her limbs and her arms and eventually she has now been reduced to being in a wheelchair. Her unsaved husband was at the conference pushing her around. I was speaking at the conference about a miracle that God did in Reading with a lady with chronic MS came out of a wheelchair and couldn't lift her legs before we prayed for her. She began to walk and then semi-trot and then jog around this auditorium. People were shouting and going crazy and her husband was crying. So I said to her; "Put your husband in the wheelchair and push him around!". Which she did! So while I am giving this testimony - this woman comes out of her wheelchair just a few days in Holland in the conference and pushed her husband up and down and Dave Holden was there so can verify this! She ran around the building showing off! How many of you believe that it won't be long before her husband is saved? He was reduced to tears! God is doing these things in Europe!

How many of you find that you struggle with a cynical mind? I do! I am still cynical! When I see these miracles I am the most shocked out of everyone! You did it again! I am analytical and cynical and embarressed about the movings of God! Our background didn't help us or prepare us or educate us to do signs and wonders. Whether you were secular or religious - both work against the supernatural. We have been taught by cessationist theologians or by secular atheists that we are living in a closed material world of cause and effect and everything we see is the product of impersonal time plus impersonal chance plus impersonal matter organising itself in an impersonal way developing impersonal complexities thus contradicting the second law of thermodynamics - do you believe that? And we said yes! That there is no supernatural, invisible realm. We brought into this lie and were brainwashed over and over again. So we stand here in a time when God is beginning to do unprecidented things in our earth. I mean unprecidented! We had a visitation of God in 1981 and many came out of wheelchairs - some blind eyes open and deaf ears in South Africa. We have seen some signs and wonders but I promise you what is happening on the earth now is unprecidented! It is unique!

We must be careful that in our openness to supernatural signs and wonders of God and His manifest glory Presence that we don't start putting categories on God as to what He can and cannot do. We will be locked into this! Some have already done this and only see Him as a healer - those who have gone further in signs and wonders - they see Him as a Healer but forgot He was first a Creator before He became a Healer! The only reason He had to start healing was because creation was subject to the fall of man. God is a Healer! But the reason why we don't see more creative miracles is because we only see Him as a Healer and have locked and restricted and limited God.

The Bible says "Let God arise" - let Him arise and be a creator! Because He can do awesome things! Like this lady from the Reading church in Southern California where a number of people have seen into the spare department room in Heaven! Now when I first heard that I thought; "That is a bit silly!". Then Bill Johnson said; "Well you live without parts you need then!". My first reaction is "I must verify that and make sure that is the case". I am longing for the day when I hear a testimony of the miraculous and just say; "Yes I believe that!" - until it is proved
wrong!

In the early church when the lady came and said; "It is Peter knocking at the door! The guy you have been praying for to come out of prison!". They said; "It can't be him! It must be an angel!". They found it easier to expect angelic visitations than an answer to their prayers!

Today if someone gets bitten by a poisonous snake and they don't die then we say "It must have been an old snake or bitten someone else and had no poison left". We are still primed wrongly and the main thing that we need to deal with is our minds! We must deal with how our minds think!

There are coming miracles that if our minds are not open then we will become Pharisees and Sadducees and couldnt-sees and wouldn't-sees! The Pharisees loved the Scriptures! You couldn't fault them - they were Word people.

I believe in the Word of God! I believe from Generations to Revolutions! I believe in the Bible! But we need to have the Spirit of revelation in way we read and contextualise the Word of God! When Jesus spat into sand and made mud and put it on someone's eyes, I cannot find any biblical precident for that. If I was a Pharisee I would have said; "Where in the Word of God do You have authority to do that?". I don't know in the Word of God where there was a precident for a whole herd of swine to go screaming with a kamikaze spirit and jump over a cliff!

Revival is wild! Revival is tearing a hole in the roof in desperation to get into the Presence of God! Revival is not for the comfortable! For those who want to understand everything with their heads! How do we deal with the fact that God is downloading gems and gold and unusual things and people are taking them and getting them verified as something unique!?

Millie here who is originally from the UK and is in our church in Hong Kong was at our "Glory and Grace Conference" and we saw unusual signs and wonders! We discovered a new platinum tooth filled up by God! My cynical mind said "Go check" and a dental technician who was there said it was new and flawless. The more we open our hearts to the fact that God is not just a Healer but a Creator then we will see things! More than ever we need to hold onto the Word of God in these days but we have got to watch how we interpret what God is doing! If it is God doing it then I don't care what He does! I have heard all about these feathers falling and I think; "What's the point?". But if it is God then let Him do it! I don't know why He does it but if He is doing it then let Him do it! Let God have His way! People say; "I don't know if it is God or the devil" and I almost want to say "You need to get born again" for you have an anointing on the inside of you so that instantly you can discern the difference between absolute manifest evil and absolute holy God. In Hong Kong the majority of Christians seem to have a theology of a very big devil and a very small God. Anything supernatural that happens must be the devil. We need to be saying; "God if You are doing it then I am embracing it!". As long as I know it's You! If I don't know it's You and I am a bit suspicious then I am going to wait! But if I know it's You then I will do it.

Just before we left Australia to relocate and go and go and live in Hong Kong - about a week before I was praying and was frightened and thinking; "God what is going to happen there!? I don't know the language or the culture and nobody knows us in the city. We have got five people to start and I am not a young man anymore!". I was just praying and then suddenly the power of God fell on me and I am talking FELL on me! My arms starting windmilling around and I thought God was going to take my arms out and then put them back on to demonstrate what He could do! And I am not exaggerating! It was that violent! He was waiting for me to say; "I am glad this isn't a public place!". Suddenly the manifestation changed like a Jew at the Western Wall and then suddenly the inward audible voice of God came and it said;

"Rob are you willing to be unashamed of My manifestations no matter what I do as long as it is Me? For many of My people are ashamed of Me and have pushed Me out of the church because I am not popular in many churches anymore. When I turn up and do manifestations then people are ashamed and think it will drive the unsaved away. In the Book of Acts I had many manifestations and I added to their number those that were being saved and Peter's shadow healed the sick and there were great signs and wonders and all were healed and demons came out with shrieks and it didn't drive people away but MANY were added! Are you willing to be unashamed?". I said "Lord I am willing to be unashamed!". Then He said; "Go in My power!".

I dropped to my knees and sat there for about an hour in the tranquility of God's Presence. I think that around the world if people don't understand that there is a revolution - not a revival - going on. There is something coming on the planet that we cannot look into our past and say "This is going to be a duplication of that". It is not! It is going to be of such a scale! We have got to be so careful that we don't call it the devil when it goes outside our cultural box! When I made a decision not to be ashamed - I said if I shake, rattle, roll then do it Lord! But do it in a dignified way! I am a proud man! No - do whatever You want! Then we began to preach and teach these things and it goes on our website! Last month in April we put a series of 12 teachings on "Glory and Grace" onto our website and we had over 348,000 downloads! There is a hunger out there! It is easier to get miracles in the street and in the marketplace than it is in the church. The New Agers have been doing Phd's in the supernatural while the church has been sitting analytically wondering if it is God or the devil with cautiousness and formalism that has dwarfed and diminished many believers from their inheritance to do the works that Jesus did and greater works.

There is legalism in the church so people don't feel worthy enough to get healed but you go out into the world and people out there are open!

Friends of ours - Fini and Isi - where we have just done our "Glory and Grace Conference" there - they were sneaked into a New Age Festival. All tarot card readings and fortune telling and they spent 3 days there. 17 of them from their church in Sydney that is in a great move of the Spirit and they have powerful revelation. They often go up into the heavenlies - this friend of ours - Isi de Gersigny. She is a true prophet but very down to earth and real. But she goes up into the heavens regularly and sees angels often which is normal New Testament! They set up a "Prophetic Booth" and said they could tell your future. And didn't tell them they were Christians and just started praying for people. A lady came who was totally unsaved and she had an accident and had a large piece of glass in her foot that the doctors couldn't remove because it was right next to a nerve. So they bandaged it up. These friends of ours began to pray in a New Age festival context. The lady said "Oh it feels better!". So the girl looked down and saw a big piece of glass on the floor. Remember the lady still had the bandage on! So she picked it up and said "Is this your piece of glass?". The lady said; "I saw it on the X-ray - that IS my piece of glass! How did it get there?". So they undid the bandages and there was no scar or mark! So she gets up and runs around the booth and they told her that they were Christians and they had prayed for her! So she goes running to other booths saying "There are Christians here! They prayed for me! My glass came out through the cloth! I am going to be a Christian!". And she came to Christ!

We have got teachers in our church in Hong Kong and one is an Australian and she teaches in a private school with young Chinese children whom Cantonese is theif first language. And she is trying to explain about the Gospel and they weren't understanding! So eventually they said; "Well Who is the Holy Spirit?". She said "I will do something better than tell you. I am going to invite Him because He is My Friend and He is Almighty God into this room and you can all meet Him!". So we teach everyone in our church to move in signs and wonders and how to release the anointing. So she said "Oh Holy Spirit won't You come?". And He did! Which He always does! He came in and instantly children were saying "I have got electric feelings on my hands!" and others laughed drunkenly and others had demons coming out! There are a lot of demonised people in Hong Kong. This is what I have lived for! God moving there where the precious ones that Jesus died for are! The lost ones! Those that some of the Church judges - the New Agers! That is where God is going!

And if the legalistic church in it's fundementalistic pride but abscence of the supernatural does not want to live up to the season or time we are in - then the greatest church of the future will be those that are not yet born again but are birthed into first generation grace churches with no baggages of the traditions of men.

Open your Bibles to 2 Corinthians chapter 3. Jesus seemed to talk and didn't say "Turn to this or that" but everything He was saying was the life and the Word of God. How many of you are here desperate to have a divine encounter to carry away? It is not about my speaking. God can wrap the words I am saying in His Presence and there comes impartation and divine administration and tomorrow afternoon I will probably talk about positioning yourself for this wave of glory and then the second session - sustaining the supernatural.

The manifestation of God's glory is merely the appearance in the seen world of the unseen world of God. It is when the invisible realm of God becomes seen in the visible realm of men. If the world does not see regular signs and wonders and miracles then it will not see the true nature of God for the true nature of God is to restore, to replenish and to give back what has been stolen and lost. The true nature of God is to remove human suffering, pain - He is a God of redemption.
I don't believe that heaven is clashing with the earth rather I believe that heaven is merging with the earth in order to topple the control of evil and manifest the goodness of God.
Anything that does not exist in heaven God does not want it to exist on earth.

The glory light - the light of God's glory - when it comes and shines - there is no opposition that can stand against it from darkness. God's glory light is so superior to the darkness in this world that there is no contest! As soon as light shines, darkness immediately goes for the light is superior! The fact that there is still so much darkness in the nations is not because or explained by the power of darkness. The reason that there is so much darkness is that darkness has not yet been fully challenged by the light. As soon as there is a challenge by the light there will be no contest and darkness must flee.

I do not have a theology that we will shrink into a world where the Christians will be some remnant group hiding away. I believe we will see the Kingdom of heaven advance and we will see the Spirit of God poured out on all flesh and God will reveal the knowledge of His glory as the waters cover the sea!

The greatest sign of the end of the age of evil - Matthew 24:14 - the Gospel will be preached as a sign to all ethnos and then the end will come! The greatest sign is not a church hiding away but a church preaching the good news of the government of God's Kingdom in the earth and mighty signs and wonders to all nations in the earth! China will wake up any moment now and 1 billion - 300 million people will experience the glory of God manifesting and shining across China! It will cover the earth! It is not a contest between light and darkness! That is yin and yang. Darkness must just go. Jesus would just walk into a place and demons would start screaming. People have got such exaggerated ideas of pulling down principalities and powers and binding them. Colossians 2:14 - Jesus cancelled the written code that stood opposed to us and disarmed the powers and authorities, triumphing over them openly! The Cross has already defeated the powers and authorities! We don't have to battle them to neutralise them to get them out of the third heaven! We are living under an open heaven in Christ Jesus! It is not a closed heaven - it is closed heads! Cynical closed heads that sit in pews on Sunday morning - the Sunday morning conservative traditional mentality! Jesus went to His own home town and could not do there any mighty works except heal a few of minor ailments and He marvelled at their UNBELIEF!
We are getting out of the Nazareth syndrome - the syndrome of minor miracles and we are moving in a wave of glory to major miracles! The contest is not between light and darkness but in the hearts of believers.

The war that is raging is this - am I worthy enough to carry the glory that raises the dead? Am I worthy enough to carry an anointing that causes a piece of glass to drop through a bandage and onto a floor? Am I worthy enough to carry a glory that causes cripples to get out of wheelchairs so that unsaved husbands can see an invisible world made manifest and see how good the nature of God is? Well if we have an Old Covenant mentality then we will never feel qualified and worthy to carry such glory.

Most Christians don't have an absolute Old Covenant mentality. Most Christians that I have met on this planet have a mixture of Old Covenant and New Covenant. Many believers have come into a revelation of grace and are enjoying a level of freedom in the grace of God yet still have performance pressures and things they feel they must do in order to see miracles. I believe in fasting and I believe in praying and some days I will pray hours a day. But it is not my fasting or my praying that will produce miracles. It is the revelation of the New Covenant! And it is abandoning any trace or vestige or remant of Old Covenant thinking and performance pressures!

It is through the obedience of the ONE Man that we have been made righteous! So we have a fool-proof, a failure-proof and a devil proof righteousness! It is not based on yours or mine obedience but on the one Man on our behalf! It is faith that we are the righteousness of God permamently and eternally and irreversibly in Christ Jesus - that by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever all of those that are being made holy! THAT is where the miracle power flows out of on a regular basis and on a daily basis!

How can we tell multitudes of churchgoers who work hours a day and have children to pick up and drop off and have all kinds of demands that in order to produce the miraculous you have got to fast and spend hours a day praying - it is not like that!

The New Covenant is not about what we DO - it is about what He has DONE at the Cross! The generator is ON! I don't pray to get the power - I pray IN the power!

Instantly it is accessible! "Holy Spirit come!". And He comes! I didn't have to fast! Come! We are in a New Covenant of unfading glory! We need to condemn condemnation! We need to accuse accusation! We need to grab guilt around the throat! We need to get out of the religious boat and realise that we can float! And wear our Father's glory coat! Most Christians who have a fear of stepping out in the supernatural and a fear of standing in front of someone in a wheelchair - a fear of praying for the blind or a fear of letting the manifestation of the Spirit show - you will find behind all that fear there is a root of condemnation. Even people that have sat and listened to grace for years! God is coming with a greater understanding of grace!

I am so glad that in Europe Dave Holden endorsed me and said "Rob - run with this message - we need this - you have opened more light to us - go for it!".

There is a deeper realm of glory! To the degree you deal with guilt and condemnation - to that degree the glory of God in proportion to that will manifest in your life. I want to say something - I am an intense person. I am an introvert posing as an extrovert. I like the mountains and the desert! I like being alone with God! I am exposing my insecurities and vulnerabilies! I like a response! I am not asking you to kiss your brains goodbye but when you sense that sounds true - be like the noble Bereans! Sometimes we have got to give ourselves permission to be happy! I can feel there is a responding culture here! How we miss the revelation of what that great outpouring of joy was. We thought it was all about joy - if that was all it was about then it would have been worth it, because that was a party! The first manifestation in the Gospels was when He turned the water into wine!

I believe that where it says; "a joy of unspeakable glory" - I am convinced of this theologically and experientially that the joy takes you into the glory.

It was the revelation that our God is good and His mercy endures forever that took them into the glory! It is the revelation of joy in the wonder of the good news of the gospel - a holy laughter! Joy is a fruit of the Spirit! Zion is the joy of the whole earth! Psalm 126 - the Lord filled our mouths with laughter! God sits on His throne and laughs at the devil who thinks he can advance against the Lord's anointed! A merry heart does good like medicine! People fought that joy and the devil was behind it because the joy of God is the doorway that takes you into the glory. Some of the greatest miracles I have seen are when the Holy Spirit has fallen and the people don't sit there analysing whether it is genuine - we are in days of extreme grace! If the church doesn't open up then like Paul tried in Ephesus to preach this radical extreme gospel! Where Paul says "I am not ashamed of the gospel" - we think he was saying he was not ashamed to preach it. He lived in a Jewish culture extremely committed to righteousness by human effort and performance and by what you gain and the very idea of being declared permamently righteous all the time was called a scandal and was almost blasphemous! He said "I am not ashamed of this gospel!". It is the power of God unto life, healing, preservation and in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed that is by faith from first to last.

It is not something you get by faith and then you must work later on to keep - it is faith from FIRST to last! This is such good news! We have said "yes it is good news but ..." that we do a Galatians 3. The Galatians had signs and wonders and miracles and then went back under law. It is so radical and extreme and sounds frighteningly irresponsible! Jesus plus anything equals nothing! Jesus plus lots of prayer and fasting ... Jesus plus any good deed will bring a declining fading glory. Jesus plus NOTHING will bring an unfading glory. The fact that the church even has need of revival is a sad testimony of Galatians 3 syndrome where the church gets a revelation of grace and then slowly drifts into a mixture of law and grace. The gospel is not preaching right living. I believe in right living and have been married 33 years to the same wife. I have six grandchildren and go to bed every night with a granny. I haven't split churches or run off with the church secretary although my wife was the secretary for a while and I ran off with her! So I believe in right living.

But the gospel is not right living. Many people for centuries in Europe have been under such condemnation. Preach right living for centuries has produced such dysfunctional church goers. I have had the pain of hearing a number of psychiatrists say that their biggest clients have been Christians living with obsessive compulsive behaviours because of the fear of losing their salvation or the fear of God getting upset with them. The fear of divine disapproval. Most psychiatrists link the root of all stress, anxiety and anger to a root of fear. From the Word of God I say they are wrong and it is not rooted in fear but a root of condemnation.

That was in the Garden of Eden. As soon as he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - what's that? The law! The knowledge of GOOD and evil. He didn't cut good out of the fruit! Good was as much part of the fall of man as evil was.

When he entered into that conciousness he hid from God because he said he was afraid. Condemnation caused a withdrawal and a loss of the glory of God. God then had to set up a cherubim and not let Adam and Eve have access to the glory realm.

When you are under a conciousness of good and evil or law-keeping then you have no right to have access permament and unconditionally to unfading glory. The law demands a fading glory. Moses said "Show me Your glory!". God said "I can only show you My hindparts". Under the Old Covenant glory is God walking away from you. Under the New Covenant it is God walking towards you open-handed! An unfaded glory!

The first Pentecost was on the day when law was given on Mount Sinai and the focus was on man's works and efforts to keep the law and 3000 died. The first Pentecost of the New Testament was when the Holy Spirit came in like a mighty rushing wind and 3000 were saved.
Ezekiel had a vision of the temple and he saw the glory of God come off the Holy of Holies and begin to reluctantly withdraw slowly and then went to the Mount of Olives and then hover there and then reluctantly go back to heaven. Then for a long time Israel had no manifest glory. It faded completely off the earth. When the first Pentecost of the New Covenant came, the Holy Spirit did not come back slowly like the way He left but He rushed in!

Somewhere in this time He will come and shock and surprise us and come like a mighty rushing wind - the moment Old Covenant strongholds in our thinking are broken! When it says "There is now therefore NO condemnation" - it means NO! It didn't say "No condemnation to those who don't sin" - because what would be the point?! Who is that who accuses?! It is God who justifies! But how many Christians who believe the grace message still live with accusation and low grade guilt all the time! It is rampant in the Body of Christ and that is the number one hindrance to great signs and wonders and miracles. It makes people dysfunction, shy and frightened of the supernatural and scared of manifestations!

This is what I wrote down the other day and I believe that this is the best way I can describe what the glory of God is;

"It is the realm of effortless miracles, signs and wonders".

When this lady came out the wheelchair a few days ago - it was effortless. It was the easiest thing! We should restore dignity to the ministry of Jesus - we don't see Him huffing and puffing! Just; "Go your way". Up to now the Church has mainly seen the operation of the anointing. The anointing and the glory are different. The anointing of God is the power for man to minster and man to pray. It is an empowering of God but the glory is WHO God is. You can get people healing in the anointing but you get very tired. You need the anointing to preach. I never preach without desperately relying on the anointing. It is the most dangerous thing to speak accurate Bible truth without an anointing. Very dangerous! There needs to be always a demonstration of the anointing while we are speaking Bible words otherwise we bring death to God's people. I am speaking under the anointing right now because I want to demolish Old Covenant thinking patterns because I know to get a move of God is not to neutralise principalities up there but to demolish ways of thinking in here in people's heads and then open them to the realm of the glory and the more you do your job in the anointing successfully the more man can backpedal and then His glory comes and man can fade into the background.

God takes place and then does things effortlessly. It is not difficult for God to heal cancer! But under the anointing I can get cancer healed but it is such hard work! The crowds will be so big! How does your shadow heal the sick? It has to be because the glory is over you! If we are going to live under the glory then we can't fluctuate with guilt and condemnation and the paralysis of analysis. When God's people come to a place where there is no condemnation even when they mess up and say "Lord that is not consistent with my new nature and I shouldn't have but I thank You that where the blood of bulls and goats couldn't take away guilt for thoe who draw near and their sin offerings were in fact an annual reminder and made them even MORE guilt concious - I thank You Father than by one sacrifice I have been made perfect forever!".
Colossians chapter 2 says "Having forgiven ALL our sins" - past tense. 2 Corinthians 5 says; "In Christ reconciling the world ... NOT counting mens sins against them!". Romans chapter 4:8 - David looked down the corridors of time and saw the New Covenant and said; "Blessed is the man whom the Lord will NEVER count their sins against them!". We are living in the time that David longed for and yet still living a confusing cocktail of good news and bad news! Christians are becoming spiritual schizophrenics and we are mis-reading contexts and we are wired to read rejection and disapproval into things but if we see the context as love letters that are securing us in grace!

The Old Covenant was written to show the power of sin and strip us of all self righteousness! When Jesus said to the Pharisees; "You should not commit adultery - it is a death sentence but I say you should not even look with lust in your heart" - people say that Jesus was preaching the New Covenant and it is a higher standard! He wasn't preaching the New Covenant! He was preaching the true spirituality of the law of Moses to strip the Pharisees of self-righteousess and prepare them for the wonder of the grace of God! If He was preaching New Covenant truth there then you that look with your hearts at someone you shouldn't be looking at, then you should pluck your eyes out or cut your hands off and be consistent if you are saying Jesus was preaching the New Covenant there! He followed that up with self-mutiliation! And because we live in a modern world we don't do that anymore although I have met Christians who have plucked their eyes out in Australia and Zimbawe because of that perverse interpretation. We don't self-mutilate physically but we self-mutiliate psychologically with this root of condemnation and the devil loves it. He is the accuser of the brethren!

You say "Talk about the anointing - don't talk about grace - we are the people of grace!". I know you are and I have learnt from you! But this will open up the manifest glory of God! The glory realm is the realm of effortless signs and wonders and miracles. The glory realm is God's realm, the realm of the supernatural, of healing, of prosperity, of life, of fruitfulness, it is the realm of His riches shared generously. It is the realm of multitudes being saved. Don't tell me the glory has come to church and people aren't being saved. When the glory comes people get saved. It is the realm of liberty, joy, confidence and peace. The glory is the realm of awe and wonder and power over the devil, where we get purified and grow in holiness, where we become more like Jesus and grow in God. It is the realm where we see into the invisible. It isn't just apostles and prophets that should see into the invisible - every New Covenant believer should see into the realm of the invisible! It is the realm of rest and revelation. It is the realm of hearing His wonderful voice. It is the realm of heaven! It is the eternal realm, the realm of heaven, the realm of absolute goodness.

I just want to read these few verses and make a few comments and then close. The Old Covenant was designed by God to strip us of all self-confidence. If you meet Christians who don't have confidence to pray for the sick or to prophesy or to come close to God then that is a sign they are living under Old Covenant mentality because the Old Covenant will take away your confidence in God. I know Christians who go to church and outside of church they are confident in their careers and in the sports field but before God they are wimps! Why? They have condemnation conciousness. I believe there is enough in the New Testament - Hebrews 10:14; "By one sacrifice He has made us perfect forever" and the next verse; "The Holy Spirit testifies to this!". I am so tired of people accusing the Friend of all Friends that I have in the earth of being someeone that condemns or convicts of sin. "I know that Scripture Rob - John 16 - when the Holy Spirit comes He will convict the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgement. You see the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and tells us how righteous we should be and that if we dont then what judgement will fall upon us". That is bad exegesis!

Jesus elaborates what He means! "Sin because they do not believe on me". So the only sin is unbelief on Jesus. That is the only sin He couldn't die for and the only sin that will send people to hell. "And righteousness because I go to the Father". When Jesus went to the Father what was He doing for us? Our high priest mediating and interceding for us and declaring that we are the righteousness of God. Then He said; "And judgement because the prince of this world is now condemned". So the Holy Spirit comes to the believer comes to the believer to help you overcome areas of unbelief in your life or comes to the unsaved and convinces them of their sin of not believing on Jesus. Once you are saved He comes to convince you that you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus (Hebrews 10:15) and that we are perfect forever and then He convinces you that it is the devil who is judged at the Cross! I know why some people don't have an intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit! They think He is the one convicting them of every sin they did! How many of you could have a close friend who followed you around and was always pointing your faults out!?

That is the practice of the LAW - to make you concious of sin! The Holy Spirit does not come to make you concious of sin, He comes and convinces you when you most need it that Jesus has gone to the Father everliving to intercede and mediate for you as a superior Mediator of a better covenant that you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and the devil who is accusing you - he is the one who is guilty and is the one triumnphed over at the Cross!

He has come to be just like Jesus! Sinners were so comfortable with Jesus and how will the Holy Spirit be any different? The only people that Jesus was hard on - and He was the most courageous man ever dealing with arrogant bigots - the Pharisees - and He never backed down or was intimidated and didn't fear man. He only feared His Father and was only hard on the self-righteous! To the people He was kind and loving and despite the sin the crowd had was that He healed them ALL! Grace was flowing from Him! The Syro-Phonecian woman persisted and said "Even the dogs will eat the crumbs" and Jesus said "I have never seen such great faith!". She didn't need to get offended by Jesus! Grace came! Which other person did He say that to? The centurion! What was the common link between himself and the housemaker woman? They were both non-Jews, not living under the law. Romans 4 says that the law neutralises and diminishes faith. It is not just about having a theology for not being under law. It has got to go far deeper than that! It is more than a notebook! It has to be a demolishing of a thinking that we have a standard we must live upto! I have heard some say that the only difference between the Old and New Covenants is that we now have a power to live upto the standards of the law. I do not believe that is the radical message Paul preached. Because we are still focused on ME trying to attain a certain standard.

Colossians says we are COMPLETE in Christ! We have received fullness in Christ! We are no longer under the law! Christ is the end of the law to ALL who believe! And the Holy Spirit is now really a comforter! The devil is the one judged! You are the righteousness of God! It gets difficult to sin regularly when you are in the glory! Do you know it is difficult to sin in the glory presence? It is condemnation that drives people to sin but glory transforms the Church! 2 Corinthians chapter 3! The worst thing you can have in a place like this is people who come to observe. No we want people who come to find the power source and want to crawl right up the plug to the power station! Smith Wiggleworth said if the Holy Spirit is not moving then we move the Holy Spirit!

I get angry when people say of me or other ministries; "Ah its their gifts that produce the miracles". How come for years I didn't see any miracles? I have a gift as an Ephesian 4 Ministry to equip and train people but I have no advantage over any other believer! This move of the Spirit is not following a ministry but a message - the message of the New Covenant!
Take Florida or any other move of the Spirit - if legalism comes in then you will see the glory fade very quickly! It is not an issue about law and grace but an issue of "Who is in control of the church?". We are not going to have chaos! We believe we tithe under grace not Malachi 3! Abraham didn't tithe to get the windows of heaven opened! He tithed because the windows were already open and we are partners with God! The majority of our people come every Sunday and give! They are committed and share their faith! This message doesn't make rebels! It is an empowerment of the New Covenant! Elders are not managers of the church but empowers! We will celebrate even your failures!

A grace church is a safe place to sin if you are going to! People sin under law and under grace! If you swim with sharks don't them know you are bleeding!

2 Corinthians 3:4; "competent as ministers of the New Covenant ... the letter KILLS". The devil can retire in many churches because preachers are killing people! He said it was a ministry that brought death. (v8); "How much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness ... being transformed into His likeness". Let's give Jesus an applause for this wonderful New Covenant!

"Laying on of Hands" - Together on a Mission 2006

This conference was my first encounter with Rob Rufus - a life-changing encounter although I have yet to meet the man! But I had such an incredible touch from God and was so moved by his teaching that I wrote to Terry Virgo to thank him for inviting Rob and enthusing about what I had heard. Terry was gracious enough to write back and made particular mention as to how Rob's teaching on the "Laying on of Hands" was really useful and revelational to him. I listened again to that session while I was driving back from my parents last night and agreed - and felt it had to be transcribed.

Here it is:

"Training Track - Session 2" - "Together on a Mission in Brighton" - 2006

I want talk about the laying on of hands today and raising the significance of this incredible truth to a higher level of expectation. The doctrine of laying on of hands needs to be raised up to a higher level. I believe currently it is operating in the church at a very low level. I don't believe we are seeing the level of apostolic understanding as to what it means to lay hands on people. It has become almost too cheap and done too quickly and carelessly and casually and we need to encourage and train and equip people. Never come up and ask people to lay hands on you lightly. Never ask hands to be laid on you without expecting to receive something. It is a foundation doctrine of Christ. Hebrews chapter 6. The laying on of hands is equal to baptism, baptism in the Spirit, judgements, resurrection from the dead, repentance and faith towards God. Alongside that is laying on of hands and you can't go on to maturity without a clear revelation of the importance of the doctrine of the laying on of hands.

We look here in Habbakkuk chapter 3 and let's read from verse 2. "Lord I have heard of Your fame - I stand in awe of Your deeds oh Lord. Renew them in our day, in our time make them known. In wrath remember mercy ... His glory covered the heavens and His praise filled the earth, His splendour was like the sunrise. Rays flashed from His hands where His power was hidden".

I am not trying to make out that God is reduced to human shape but it does say that "rays flashed from His hands" so there is this divine image that the power of God is flashing from the hands of God. I believe that when God's immortal hands come on our mortal hands then there is a divine flash - there is a discharge of heavenly voltage that needs to be restored back to the Church in dimension that was there in the Book of Acts and we have got to recapture today!

Go to Acts chapter 8 please. There are many passages on this. Dave Holden quoted it yesterday - Romans 1:11 and Paul says; "I have come to you so that I may impart a gift to you - a gift that makes you strong". Then in 2nd Timothy chapter 1:6-7 Paul says; "Stir up the gift that is within you through the laying on of my hands ... a spirit of power, love and a sound mind".

In other words Timothy was a timid man but he got something that made him amazingly strong when Paul laid his hands on him and got something amazingly powerful that Paul put into him through the apostolic laying on of hands so that Timothy was standing up and starting to lead well but people didn't like that so intimidation was coming back on him and Paul was saying; "Stir up what you received through the laying on of my hands".

Here Philip goes down to Samaria and has the most amazing signs and wonders and miracles - the whole city filled with joy. The cripples and the paralysed were walking - demons coming out - people getting saved! Then the apostles come down and they don't start off with line upon line teaching.

They add MORE to the supernatural by the laying on of hands for the impartation of the Holy Spirit!

Here is Simon the sorcerer who had just got saved through seeing some amazing supernatural phenomeon and he had moved in psychic counterfeit demonic power and in counterfeit miracles and had impressed the village. But when Philip came down he was amazed at the power of God at work and then he sees the apostles come down and apostles lay their hands on the new converts and here is what it says; (v18); "When Simon saw that the Holy Spirit was given through the laying on of hands, he offered them money and said 'Give me also this ability'". There are many witchdoctors in Africa and some of them are cons but I have met many that are really moving in dark demonic power. I have heard from pretty good witnesss of some who could reverse the flow of a river. Their curses on people would have power. I never knew of any of those witchdoctors that came to us Christians and offered us money so they could have the power that when I lay my hands on people something happens that is so powerful!

Peter said "Your money perish with you - you will die and even if you repent" and he gets heavy on him.

A witchdoctor or a sorcerer is not going to be impressed with hands being laid on people and nothing happening! He MUST have seen SOMETHING. He must have seen the miracles that Philip did but now he is willing to offer money to get the power to lay hands on people and something is given to them!

Today you see people lay their hands on people and pray for the sick and nothing. We must recover what it means to lay hands on people. John G Lake came to South Africa in 1905 and in five years, 500 churches were planted. It is the biggest denomination in South Africa today and sadly some of it has gone into terrible heresy because unfortunately John G Lake didn't build a proper biblical wineskin and that is the sad legacy of the power without a proper wineskin. But in terms of the power - phenomenal power! Signs and wonders and miracles! When he got back to America they hooked him upto machinery and put all kinds of gadgets on him and saw electrical powers on him. He said; "Gentlemen the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is quickening my mortal body with life!".

One day he laid hands on someone who had a massive festering sore and they had to scrape the maggots of it. So he came in and laid hands on that person in one of their healing schools and he prayed these kinds of prayers; "You foul devil of infirmity - I curse you by the authority of heaven - let the lightning flashes of heaven break through and manifest the power of healing in this body!".

The person went off and two days later they got a telegram back from this person from another city. The open wound was completely healed miraculously! But there is a clear imprint burn-mark about 1mm deep and the full imprint of that hand over where that open wound was!

We don't understand! That was someone who knew how to impart something! That may not be what God wants as the norm but we have to raise the level of the miraculous impartation with the laying on of hands. I know that if I can get people to lower their resistance to the anointing and get it right down low then I know that; "Such as I have - I can give". I know that! The great One lives inside of us and in the Kingdom of heaven;

Wealth is not measured so much by what you have but how much you give away.

So in a sense I believe that when the Holy Spirit comes into our lives, we ALL have the Spirit without measure! But that doesn't measure our wealth. What measures our wealth is how much we can give away. I love what Peter says; "Such as we HAVE - we GIVE to you". So if we can help lower people's resistance then when we help lay our hands on them - there comes an impartation that is so powerful it can heal any disease. What about unforgiveness and bitterness in their lives? I think we have gone too hard on that and said "People with unforgivness can't get healed". I know of people that got miraclously healed and they still were bitter! It is like God healed them and delivered them of their sins. Some need to confess their sins of bitterness but there is no formula or checklist! "Any unforgivenss or any bitterness in your life?". Then you don't get healed!

The 1st thing I am going for is to lower their resistance on their faith fuse. Because when the power of God comes into people, He can heal them of bitterness as much as He can drive cancer out their body! Some people don't have the power to get free from their bitterness! But when the power of God comes on them it destroys that root of bitterness that is defiling them and heals their body. I know sometimes that bitterness can block the power of God sometimes and be a resistance but I am not wanting to make a type category here. If we can lower their resistance and lay hands on them then great healings can take place.

I learnt this at what we called in Durban a, "New Africa Celebration". We did a protest against apartheid, sang songs about a new South Africa but we also wanted to see a demonstration of God's power. So I preached a message in this big hall with a whole load of unsaved people there and I preached on God's will to heal and God's desire to heal and called people forward. There was such a corporate anointing that I literally ran down this row just slapping people on the head! About 98% of people got flung back like a baseball bat had hit them on the head and it knocked them and the catchers over! I didn't ask them what their sickness was because you see - I don't have faith to open blind eyes or deaf ears or miracles of healing cripples. I HAVE faith to GIVE the power of God! And it makes it so much simpler! That took 30 seconds to run down this row and then an elder came to me with a woman screaming "I can see! I can see" and a totally blind eye had been opened! How long have you been blind? She said "I was born blind in that eye". I said "I am so glad that you didn't tell me that before I prayed for you".

What I am saying is that I had faith to IMPART the power and she had faith to RECEIVE it. The power of God is like a heat seeking missile and it went and did the job.

Another guy came up and said "I can hear! I can hear!". How long have you been deaf? "I was born without an ear drum!". I am so thankful I didn't know that either! Because if I had known about this ear or eye then I would have gone back to my secular university days and literally tried to work out how God was going to put an ear drum in there and how that would happen.

But I developed my faith in "Such as I have" and I laid my hands upon people and I expect power to go into them! And I had prepared them to receive power.

I have found in the last 20 years that if we don't prepare people with faith to receive then we get about 5-10% healed but if we teach the Word of God clearly then they can be raised up to about 80% and higher. Let me give you several things here and then we can close. Here is some of the things that happen when we lay hands on people and we need to raise expectations. I have watched in services and no one is prepared to EXPECT something to happen when hands are laid on. So you see begging and pleading but I don't see Jesus ever (and I could be wrong) begging the Father to heal people or even asking the Father to heal people. What I do see is Him commanding sickness to go and demons of infirmity to go and healing to come. He just commands it! When I see hands laid on and there is begging and pleading I just don't think it looks like the New Testament! Jesus said to His disicples; "Go to a village and tell them that the Kingdom of heaven is touchable and it is reachable and it is at hand and you can change the way you think - then lay hands on the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers and cast out demons". THAT simple! He is training them to prepare people to receive.

I think once we raise this doctrine of the laying on of hands we are going to see manifestations of God! Now I think laying on of hands is one of the lowest levels of the impartation of the supernatural. But I think if we don't get the lowest foundational Hebrews 6 doctrine right then we can't go on to the greater manifestations. We look at Peter laying hands on the cripple at the Gate Beautiful and him walking to 2 chapters later and his shadows heal the sick. I have watched when we have laid hands on a few in a meeting and suddenly the glory of God covers a whole meeting and suddenly you go into a higher level and people are getting healed in their chairs and we can go onto spitting on people's eyes! Waving clothes around! We can just speak and heal them with our words wrapped in the anointing and people get healed 200 meters back in the hall. But if we don't get the laying on of hands then we are not going to get very far.

The more we lay hands on people to impart the power of God the more we will see the corporate manifestation getting stronger.

Kathryn Kuhlman would go and stay in a hotel prior to a meeting and the people on the floor above and below her would get healed spontaneously even though they didn't know that she was in the hotel! I know of one very well documented case of her speaking at a Full Gospel Businessmen's meeting in a great forum and at the end the anointing was so strong on her and they took her out through the kitchen area so she wouldn't have to work her way out through the crowds and so as they escorted her through the kitchen area and these chefs and unsaved people in the kitchen area were falling under the power! Unsaved people just falling under the power! I think we have got to grow in the laying on of hands and then we can grow to higher levels of the greater manifestations.

Nine or ten things that happen with the laying on of hands:

1. There is an impartation of Supernatural Life.

We become supercharged with the life and vitality of almighty God. For some people it is like the divine defibrillators at work bringing them back to life! That is a heartbeat! Why can't we use a 10v battery? No some people need 10 000 volts to bring a revival into another level of the glory of God!

2. There is an impartation of a gift that makes us strong (Romans 11).

3. Vision can come.

There are five levels of vision and the highest is open vision in front of your very eyes and you can see things happening! I have had a few of those and mostly to do with my children. They used to get so angry! Both my sons got saved properly in their late teens! They were upto all kinds of nonsense although they are all serving God now. My son is a leader with us in Hong Kong and my daughter is a worship leader and my oldest son is serving God in Australia. They would try and get upto all kinds of naughty things. I would be at home worshipping and I would see a vision of my son Ryan and he is meant to be at school. And I would see him standing under a post smoking a cigaratte. So I would come home and Ryan would be there and I would say; "Ryan where were you this morning?" and he said; "Oh Dad I was at school". "No you weren't - you were standing up that post with a cigarette!". He said; "That's not fair - why does God tell on us! Why can't we get away with it!?". I said "Because He loves you and so do I!".

When you lay hands on some people they have instant vision. Revelations of God's plans and purposes for your life! An inward quiet impression is just as powerful as an open vision. Some of the most dramatic breakthroughs I have had, have not been with open vision but with quiet vision! Vision comes through the laying on of hands! People get caught up into the heavenly realm. I don't understand that - that has never happened to me but I have laid hands on people and mainly teenagers have seen the throne room! This is an amazing thing that ten to fifteen years later their lives are still changed. They saw something! I loved what Dave Holden said yesterday - don't try to catch the youth up with a whole load of entertainment to get them related to the church! They are so ready for the supernatural, the young people! When I first went to Australia, all the young people sat at the back cutting up the benches and talking to the girls. These were the youth! Within several months of releasing the power of God they were all near the front and all on the front rows turned unto God. They got under the defibrillator and said "God is real".

Trances are not just New Age - trances are also biblical. The devil is not a creator but a counterfeiter. We have so overreacted to the counterfeit that we withdraw from the genuine. I think it is Acts chapter 10 verse 10 and Peter fell into a trance! He saw things and it opened up the gospel in a wonderful way into Cornelius's home. How many of you have heard of Maria Woodworth-Etter? Amazing ministry. She was standing preaching in the United States and made a point and fell into a trance and was like that for 3 days. It was like her bodily functions were suspended. She stepped over into the realm of the glory. For 3 days! And after that she carried on with the end of her sentance and wondered why the crowd had grown! They reckoned that tens of thousands had come in those 3 days to come and see this lady frozen - a sign and a wonder and they felt the Presence of God was so sacred that they fell to their knees and repented and they reckoned that for a 100 mile radius the glory of God radiated around that whole region.

Many religious traditions would say; "That's demonic". We are so quick to label everything as demonic. It is easy to pick up when it is demonic! When it is demonic it draws attention to the fact that it is the flesh, it is irritating. When it is the glory of God it edifies you and makes you wonder. When God comes in signs and wonders - it is a wonder! What is the point? People realise God is real and it is sacred!

4. Healing both physical and emotions.

5. Darkness is removed.

Demonic presence is driven out and great peace and clarity comes. Because there were extremes in the deliverance ministry many years ago we kind of backed off casting out demons. I don't believe that any individual has a deliverance ministry. I would never categorise myself as that - I believe that ALL believers are to cast out demons. Soon as you classify yourself as having a deliverance ministry the devil says "Great I will send thousands of demonised people that don't want to be delivered to your house and destroy you and burn you out!". Your identity is not in casting demons out but in God's grace. We just cast demons out as a normal way of life! It is just the Kingdom of heaven breaking in!

6. Visitations of Jesus - intimacy, closeness with Jesus.

He becomes so real and His love becomes so real and it carries over into daily living. Many people live for the rest of their life carried by the wonder of that encounter of how real Jesus was.

7. Callings and Commissionings.

God first calls you and then He prepares you over days and weeks and months or even years and then He suddenly commissions you and activates the calling and from that moment we walk in the authority and anointing of that calling through the laying on of hands.

I don't believe someone can actually function properly as an elder unless apostles lay hands upon them - there is a missing ingredient.

8. Conferring Blessings.

"The rod of instruction drives out foolishness from the child". We never want to smack our children with our hands. I know that is a bit controversial issue today biut it says spare the rod and spoil the child. So we would never use our hands to smack our children but a rod.

Hands are not to punish - hands are to bless with. Hands are for conferring blessing, success, favour, promotion, prosperity and peace - all transferred by the laying on of hands.

9. Ordaining Leaders.

10. You bring relief and an impartation of rest.

It brings a relief from striving that can build up internally over days and even years. Often this pressure does not come out until the anointing accesses those areas like a safety valve being opened.

11. The Personality of the Holy Spirit rubs off on you.

(Galatians 5:22).

The laying on of hands is not an immunisation. It doesn't guarantee you against challenges. But it sure is a powerful doctrine of the Bible that God wants to elevate to a whole new level of faith.

Newfrontiers Europe Conference - Session 2

"Being Obedient to Faith" - 11th May 2008.

"The Presence of the Lord is here in such a wonderful way - that is the most important thing. It's not such a disaster if the speaker doesn't turn up. But if the Presence of God does not turn up, then it is a disaster. Then it is almost like you wish that the speaker hadn't turned up! I feel the heart of God towards you as a people and I do say this with integrity - you don't always feel such a sense of God's affection towards a group of people - the heart of the Father towards you is that He delights over you.

It is unique to find a family of people who so fully celebrate the wonder of the New Covenant - who embrace the freedom of grace - embrace the truth of the truth of the Word of God and are not nervous or unafraid of the supernatural power of God.

I believe a wave of glory is going to come over Europe and I believe it has already begun. I do believe it will come first to people who have positioned themselves deliberately for that wave.

I grew up in the city of Durban which is famous for it's good surf and one of the greatest pleasures of my youth was surfing regularly. You had to deliberately position yourself for a wave. You could not do it accidentally. If you were too far out or too close in, you would miss the impact. If you were too far to the left or to the right, you wouldn't catch the peak. You had to time when to start paddling to catch the wave. But once you caught that wave, you were in heaven. You could do so many amazing things. You would go into the green room - the whole wave breaking over your head and you standing up straight and the pressure gets into your eardrums because the wave is closing out the air!

Then it can spit you out and you can do all sorts of wonderful things. Just prior to a revival - there is a sense of positioning yourself - there is a paddling - a faith paddle. But once you catch the wave from that moment - the entire reality of church life changes. I wanted to talk tonight about sustaining supernatural ministry - I really had a brilliant message but I don't think I am going to preach it tonight. I felt the Lord say;

"Release a prophetic word over the people - a teaching/prophetic word about the wave of glory".

When the glory of God comes we need to be prepared. But the Lord is coming - ready or not. We need to be established in what our identity is. Your failures and sins do not define who you are. What you are in Christ defines you. Romans 5:19 says though the obedience of the one man many were imputed righteousness. I am glad that the righteousness I stand in before my Father is not based on my performance or even my obedience but it is based on the obedience of the one Man - last Adam - Jesus Christ. I believe in obeying God.

Romans 1:5 says we are called to the obedience of faith - not to the obedience of the law but to the obedience of faith. When you believe how perfectly righteous you are all the time in Jesus Christ, it releases a spirit of obedience but never at any point is my identity based on my performance or my obedience. Through the obedience of the one Man, you have been made righteous. In other words when this becomes a revelation you have an identity that is established in something so solid - you have a fool-proof righteousness - you have a failure-proof righteousness and you have a devil-proof righteousness because your righteousness is not based upon your obedience - your standing before the Father is not based on you but on one Man.

Our identity will not fluctuate up or down based on our performance. We have got nothing to prove! Isn't that a wonderful relief?!

3 years ago in the city of Reading just outside of London, we did an outreach and every morning I spent 2 hours training the ministry team. We had about 100 people that took holiday and came to be trained in the morning and then in the evening this ministry team were the ones that prayed for the people. In one morning I spent 1 hour telling them all about my failures in the ministry. All the people I prayed for that did not get healed and all that died. 1 hour! At the end of that hour I said; "Is there anyone sick here?". Yet they came up and we saw some of the most amazing miracles that morning!

One of the men is now with us in Hong Kong! He got so miraculously healed and said; "I want to go that church where the leader talks about all his failures and THEN the miracles happen!". That night in the outreach in a hall possibly twice this one, Glenda and I prayed for a lady with M.S in the chronic advance stages and she had been in the advance stages for years in a wheelchair. She could not walk at all and couldn't lift her legs up at all. After letting her get soaked in the anointing for 20 minutes, she got up, stood up and walked around the building with me in front of a large crowd of people.

It is the anointing that does the job - not us!

Her husband was crying, I was crying and I told her husband to get in the wheelchair and let her push him around. I tell you tonight with truth - I do not have any gifts of healing. It is a very dangerous thing to say that person has special gifts - that's why they get miracles. I am so tired of people buying into that lie; "Oh Rob gets breakthroughs wherever he goes because he has got special gifts".

Let me tell you - it's not because of special gifts. The move of God follows a message.

The Galatians lost the supernatural of God because they went under law again and performance pressure to earn the blessing. The supernatural disappears when we are trying to impress people with how gifted we are instead of letting them know how weak we are and vulnerable when we are praying for people to come out of wheelchairs, we are more surprised than the people watching! We do it - but it was God!

The only gifting that I have and others have are Ephesians 4 gifts is to equip and train people to do things.

Not everyone has that gift to train people to do things but every believer has the ability to walk in grace - to condemn condemnation - to accuse accusation - to grab guilt by the throat and get out the religious boat and realise that you can float and wear your Father's glory coat. When you are clothed in grace and not living with guilt and condemnation not because you have never sinned or made mistakes because you all have!

I am so tired of the church being shocked at people's sin! The last I checked there is not one person on the planet who does not sin at one time. I am so shocked that we are still shocked!

I know why some people don't confess their sin in the context of communities they live in and open transparantly about their frailities and vulnerabilities in some of the religious contexts they are in. If you are swimming with the sharks - don't let them know you are bleeding. People say; "Look how many problems there are in this grace message - people start feeling insecure to being open, honest and vulnerable". Problems are always there. Grace brings them out in the open when God can lovingly deal with them.

There was a lady who climbed up into her dark attic and switched on the flash light and saw all the dust and said; "Oh no - look how much dust this light has caused!". No the dust was always there - the light brought it out. Under law, sin and problems go into hiding and the longer man controls the Church - the Bride of Christ - with laws, rules, guilt manipulation and control, the more and more miracles leave - the supernatural disappears, it's just good sermons, good theology spoken with brain power and not anointing.

I believe one of apostolic's ministry has been side-lined as an optional ministry - that is what Jesus did all the time, every day - miracles, signs and wonders. The book of Acts was moving in it all the time. If you are going to move in the anointing you will face opposition. Almost every time you read it in the book of Acts that great signs and wonders broke out, the very next verse will say; "And opposition arose".

You preach the message of grace and anointing and opposition WILL arise. If you don't know what defines your identity then you will cave into the pressure.

You don't have to perform or prove anything to men - you don't need man's acceptance or man's approval. You get your identity from the Father - you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus! You honour one another in work and in team and all of that - but your approval and identity comes from heaven not earth. When I see people rushing up and saying; "I want a double portion of the anointing" - my heart leaps with joy and fear. You are asking for a double portion of persecution, rejection and opposition.

When a nation loses revelation of grace and the power of God - it goes into the dark ages. When Martin Luther had a revelation of grace and justification by faith those of you who are history scholars will know this - not only did it bring revolution to the church, it brough revival to secular society. It's not the Renaissance - its the reformation that released inventions, science, art, political change and human rights. For centuries the church was held under the oppression of darkness, law, rules, superstitions, lack of the anointing, signs and wonders - just fear and control, science and inventions were slowed right down. Now secular society sees that the Church has no role in secular society because we have shaken off religion and can go on and architecture a good political society without God. The devil knows that if churches rise up in the anointing and the message of grace and freedom, nations that are desperate for transcendance encounters with the heavenlies are going to pour into those churches.

Do you realise that demons were coming out of people with shrieks and going? Only the anointing can do that.

We have a man in our church in Hong Kong that went to an evangelical legalistic church for many, many years - secretly he was bound with homosexual pornography. All the heavy-handed holiness teaching telling him he shouldn't do things didn't help him at all - he was bound. He came and sat in our church and was just massaged with the message of grace that you are - even with your sins - the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus because it's not based on your obedience but the obedience of the one Man. First he could not believe this was Christianity and he sat there for a few months. Then one Sunday the anointing came on him and he fell on the ground. I had no idea what his hidden problem was. I just saw in the Spirit a demon leave him and go in the discerning of spirits and I knew he was free - whatever his problem was.

The next week he phoned me and told me about his homosexual pornography problem was that he had for years. He had burned all his pornography material - that was 3 years ago and he is a magnificent young man standing up free in Christ today.

There is a civil war going on in the church today - sadly civil wars are the worst because it is a brother fighting a brother. Sisters fighting sisters. It is the most horrific thing you can imagine and it is over the issue of how we the church define the goodness of God. People say God gives you cancer, God killed your child to punish you for your sin. Then there are others who say no - Jesus healed all who were oppressed by the devil. The civil war is over the issue of law and grace but it is really about who controls the church.

If we preach a mixture of law and grace then man controls the church. If we preach pure New Testament freedom in Christ - the fullness of the Holy Spirit will come on the church and we will see the flood of God's glory come through Europe.

The enemy is fighting that with everything he can. Don't fight the civil war with your brothers and sisters. Target the devil - he is behind it all. Let's love one another - let's show mercy and grace but let's not water this message down we are fighting for more than just personal happiness and peace. We are fighting for whole societies and communities to be covered with the glory of God. I've got this prophetic thing about the glory of God but I feel constrained not to go that way. There were a number of people healed here last night. Paul was healed of a condition that he has carried for 12 years. Tell us what happened;

Testimony: "12 years ago I had an accident with a motorcycle and my arm was out of the socket - so for 12 years very regularly my arm would be dislocated. Until last night with the prayer of Rob - I can move my arm now whatever direction. It's completely God!!".

I didn't lay hands on him so I didn't really pray for him. I said; "Check your body". So he very carefully began to move it. He moved it back and back and he could not do that before. I am feeling a bit weird tonight - a bit insecure because you saw how I preached last night and I had a great preach here tonight and I feel like the Holy Spirit wants to confirm what was preached last night. We are going to do what Dave Holden spoke about - getting out of our comfort zones. I am sure that there are about 12 or 15 people healed. I am sure a lot of people weren't healed. How many of you have sickness or disease or a condition in this place tonight? Oh - look at my failures! I prayed and you didn't get healed.

How many of you have pain from an accident or a car accident? Often what happens is if you haven't been healed for a long time then there comes demonic oppression over that area to try and make it worse. Then we begin to manage the pain and think we have to live this way. I believe the Lord wants to heal you tonight. I want you to soak in the anointing - address that sickness and disease and command it to go! Pray boldly with authority and with faith! Ask them and boldly do something that you couldn't do before! Ask them to check themselves. How many of you feel some improvement? Or you have got your full healing right now? Those people raise their hands! Give the Lord a clap! There are others who weren't healed when people prayed. Jesus Christ prayed for a blind man twice. Let's pray for those people one more time.

You have got nothing to prove - let God prove Himself! Let your healing fire fall Lord! Check your bodies. Those that weren't healed on the first prayer but now feel healing - raise your hands. Can anyone translate for the Latvians?!

Testimony: "I went to get healing for my neck, hands and nails. I don't have visible proof but I felt Jesus touch me and was aware of His love and He has touched me and healed me!".

How many want more of God?! How many of you are ready to start paddling to catch the wave of glory? How many of you as leaders are not willing to let things settle down into passivity in your normal Sunday service? Under the anointing you will stir faith in the people?! The word "exhort" in the New Testament in the Greek does not mean to tell people they must do something.

When you exhort people to worship God and believe God, it means you empower the people to release faith into their hearts to do it.

Most services will settle down into a bland, boring meeting if leaders allow it to. Miracles seldom happen where there is grace and freedom and liberty - that is why we have had people healed here tonight. If you want more of God - just lift your hands. Revival is ripping a hole in the roof to get into the Presence. Revival is wild and scary!

Father, I ask you will confirm last night's message in a release of power of New Covenant glory. May we carry something tangible and transferrable! Fire Lord! The anointing is getting stronger and it comes for a purpose.

He is putting mantles on people - a coat is being thrown over your shoulders. The voltage of heaven is being built up and up here! In 2004 people were sitting on beaches in Asia and had no idea that a tsunami was about to hit. They were going about their lives as normal when suddenly a tsunami hit. In a matter of seconds everything changed! The whole beach and environment changed and nothing was the same again and it will come to people ready and positioned and it will break religious barracades. They can put religious fences and religious walls but just as Jesus Christ walked through walls and appeared to His disciples so there are no barracades big enough to stop the tsnuami coming. Nothing will be the same!

The rain of the glory is coming like a flood! Fire will sweep through and all the fire breaks won't stop it. This fire is going to burn!

The only thing that will this wave will destroy is legalism and self-righteousness. Fear of rejection will stop you moving in the supernatural.

Jesus had to put people out of the room before He could raise Jairuse's daughter - I would never want to be someone Jesus has to put out of the room before He can do a miracle because I am observing critically. Anytime fear or intimidation comes to you - recognise it is not from God - it is an illegitimate authority that will hinder the supernatural!